Discussion:
Bach worklist with year of origin?
(too old to reply)
Mike Sound
2006-04-10 12:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Hallo friends,
after a few hours googling I have to ask here:
I found everything, a list of Bach's works in alphabetic and other orders.
What I hoped to find for download was a list of Bach's works (in which order
ever) with the years of origin (estimated, I know the problem).
Does such a thing exist?
At least for the cembalo works/concertos?

Thanks for any help

Mike
Thomas Wood
2006-04-11 01:02:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Sound
Hallo friends,
I found everything, a list of Bach's works in alphabetic and other orders.
What I hoped to find for download was a list of Bach's works (in which
order ever) with the years of origin (estimated, I know the problem).
Does such a thing exist?
At least for the cembalo works/concertos?
Thanks for any help
There are several lists of Bach's works online that give exact dates (when
known) or estimated dates but are organized by BWV order:

http://www.classical.net/music/composer/works/jsbach/bwvindex.html
http://www.jsbach.org/
http://www.jsbach.net/catalog/index.html

However, there is no overall chronological catalog of Bach's works, because
the dates of composition of so many of his works that is uncertain or
unknown.

Tom Wood
Arthur Ness
2006-04-12 13:03:13 UTC
Permalink
There is a chronological listing of the cantatas, based on the discoveries of Dürr and Dadelson in the preface to Gerhard Herz, Cantata 140 (Wachet auf) in the Norton Score series. There is also valuable information in the preface to his edition of Cantata No. 4 (Christ lag in Todesbanden) in the same series. There is a chronological list in BWV (1950 ed., don't know about the latest ed.), but it is very unreliable. For example, for many years, Cantata No. 4 was thought to be one of his last works, when it is actually a very early work.

The question was in regard to instrumental works. Here the problem is especially difficult, because so few instrumental works come down in scores made during Bach's lifetime. For example, the earliest sources for three of the orchestral suites is 25 years after Bach's death. So the watermark and handwriting evidence which assists scholars in dating works is lacking for the suites, and for so many other instrumental works.
Post by Mike Sound
Hallo friends,
I found everything, a list of Bach's works in alphabetic and other orders.
What I hoped to find for download was a list of Bach's works (in which
order ever) with the years of origin (estimated, I know the problem).
Does such a thing exist?
At least for the cembalo works/concertos?
Thanks for any help
There are several lists of Bach's works online that give exact dates (when
known) or estimated dates but are organized by BWV order:

http://www.classical.net/music/composer/works/jsbach/bwvindex.html
http://www.jsbach.org/
http://www.jsbach.net/catalog/index.html

However, there is no overall chronological catalog of Bach's works, because
the dates of composition of so many of his works that is uncertain or
unknown.

Tom Wood
Mike Sound
2006-04-14 14:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Hello Arthur!
Thank you for the hints. The Norton Score Series is (unlucky) not available
in my library. Because I'm german, I'll try at first Dadelsen, beside
Schmieder. Dürr in his book "Zur Chronologie der Leiziger Vokalwerke
J.S.Bachs" wasn't very helful for me.
I know the problem with the chronology and times of origin, I hoped that I
coul find (my days in musicology are far away) a few good estimations.
I have a chronological list of the Cantatas is available, I wanted to study
the years, in which the concerts were composed or performed.
Thank you again
Have a nice day
Mike

"Arthur Ness" <***@verizon.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:lU6%f.5746$***@trndny01...
There is a chronological listing of the cantatas, based on the discoveries
of Dürr and Dadelson in the preface to Gerhard Herz, Cantata 140 (Wachet
auf) in the Norton Score series. There is also valuable information in the
preface to his edition of Cantata No. 4 (Christ lag in Todesbanden) in the
same series. There is a chronological list in BWV (1950 ed., don't know
about the latest ed.), but it is very unreliable. For example, for many
years, Cantata No. 4 was thought to be one of his last works, when it is
actually a very early work.

The question was in regard to instrumental works. Here the problem is
especially difficult, because so few instrumental works come down in scores
made during Bach's lifetime. For example, the earliest sources for three of
the orchestral suites is 25 years after Bach's death. So the watermark and
handwriting evidence which assists scholars in dating works is lacking for
the suites, and for so many other instrumental works.
Post by Mike Sound
Hallo friends,
I found everything, a list of Bach's works in alphabetic and other orders.
What I hoped to find for download was a list of Bach's works (in which
order ever) with the years of origin (estimated, I know the problem).
Does such a thing exist?
At least for the cembalo works/concertos?
Thanks for any help
There are several lists of Bach's works online that give exact dates (when
known) or estimated dates but are organized by BWV order:

http://www.classical.net/music/composer/works/jsbach/bwvindex.html
http://www.jsbach.org/
http://www.jsbach.net/catalog/index.html

However, there is no overall chronological catalog of Bach's works,
because
the dates of composition of so many of his works that is uncertain or
unknown.

Tom Wood
Arthur Ness
2006-04-15 08:34:39 UTC
Permalink
Dear Mike,

Perhaps you could get it on InterLibrary Loan. I know the service is especially good in Germany. It seemed that after placing a request, I'd have the book in two or three days. The nice aspect of Herz's list is that it is in tabular form, and each Sunday that Bach worked is given with the cantata performance on that date (including repeat performances). For each he gives date, occasion, BWV,title, author of text, copyists, old date, etc.

But that doesn't answer your question about instrumental works, I realize.

There is also a barebones chronology in an appendix to Malcolm Boyd, Oxford Composer Companion: JSBach. Those listing include quite a number of instrumental works, as well as the cantatas.

Gruess, Arthur
"Mike Sound" <***@online.de> wrote in message news:e1oc0q$cle$***@online.de...
Hello Arthur!
Thank you for the hints. The Norton Score Series is (unlucky) not available
in my library. Because I'm german, I'll try at first Dadelsen, beside
Schmieder. Dürr in his book "Zur Chronologie der Leiziger Vokalwerke
J.S.Bachs" wasn't very helful for me.
I know the problem with the chronology and times of origin, I hoped that I
coul find (my days in musicology are far away) a few good estimations.
I have a chronological list of the Cantatas is available, I wanted to study
the years, in which the concerts were composed or performed.
Thank you again
Have a nice day
Mike

"Arthur Ness" <***@verizon.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:lU6%f.5746$***@trndny01...
There is a chronological listing of the cantatas, based on the discoveries
of Dürr and Dadelson in the preface to Gerhard Herz, Cantata 140 (Wachet
auf) in the Norton Score series. There is also valuable information in the
preface to his edition of Cantata No. 4 (Christ lag in Todesbanden) in the
same series. There is a chronological list in BWV (1950 ed., don't know
about the latest ed.), but it is very unreliable. For example, for many
years, Cantata No. 4 was thought to be one of his last works, when it is
actually a very early work.

The question was in regard to instrumental works. Here the problem is
especially difficult, because so few instrumental works come down in scores
made during Bach's lifetime. For example, the earliest sources for three of
the orchestral suites is 25 years after Bach's death. So the watermark and
handwriting evidence which assists scholars in dating works is lacking for
the suites, and for so many other instrumental works.
Post by Mike Sound
Hallo friends,
I found everything, a list of Bach's works in alphabetic and other orders.
What I hoped to find for download was a list of Bach's works (in which
order ever) with the years of origin (estimated, I know the problem).
Does such a thing exist?
At least for the cembalo works/concertos?
Thanks for any help
There are several lists of Bach's works online that give exact dates (when
known) or estimated dates but are organized by BWV order:

http://www.classical.net/music/composer/works/jsbach/bwvindex.html
http://www.jsbach.org/
http://www.jsbach.net/catalog/index.html

However, there is no overall chronological catalog of Bach's works,
because
the dates of composition of so many of his works that is uncertain or
unknown.

Tom Wood
Mike Sound
2006-04-14 14:43:44 UTC
Permalink
Sorry, forgotten to post www.jsba.ch
Hans, one of the guys there, gave me a hint, they have a good database
(pdf's)
Mike

"Arthur Ness" <***@verizon.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:lU6%f.5746$***@trndny01...
There is a chronological listing of the cantatas, based on the discoveries
of Dürr and Dadelson in the preface to Gerhard Herz, Cantata 140 (Wachet
auf) in the Norton Score series. There is also valuable information in the
preface to his edition of Cantata No. 4 (Christ lag in Todesbanden) in the
same series. There is a chronological list in BWV (1950 ed., don't know
about the latest ed.), but it is very unreliable. For example, for many
years, Cantata No. 4 was thought to be one of his last works, when it is
actually a very early work.

The question was in regard to instrumental works. Here the problem is
especially difficult, because so few instrumental works come down in scores
made during Bach's lifetime. For example, the earliest sources for three of
the orchestral suites is 25 years after Bach's death. So the watermark and
handwriting evidence which assists scholars in dating works is lacking for
the suites, and for so many other instrumental works.
Post by Mike Sound
Hallo friends,
I found everything, a list of Bach's works in alphabetic and other orders.
What I hoped to find for download was a list of Bach's works (in which
order ever) with the years of origin (estimated, I know the problem).
Does such a thing exist?
At least for the cembalo works/concertos?
Thanks for any help
There are several lists of Bach's works online that give exact dates (when
known) or estimated dates but are organized by BWV order:

http://www.classical.net/music/composer/works/jsbach/bwvindex.html
http://www.jsbach.org/
http://www.jsbach.net/catalog/index.html

However, there is no overall chronological catalog of Bach's works,
because
the dates of composition of so many of his works that is uncertain or
unknown.

Tom Wood
Mike Sound
2006-04-15 13:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Hello Arthur and other interested,

concerning the chronology of the cembalo concerts I found that they must be
composed between 1713 and 1723, presumable from B.s time in Weimar and
Köthen. B. made a compilation and fair copys from them 1737. Better hints
for the time of origin are, at the moment, not to find.

I found these hints in:
Christian Berger, J. S. Bachs Cembalokonzerte, AfMw 47, 1990, H.3, S.
207-16, and in the literature mentioned there.

Have a nice day!

Mike

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