Discussion:
for Bach keyboardists....
(too old to reply)
**©©
2007-06-24 20:01:29 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I play a great deal of JS Bach on the piano, and having learned
both WTC books, the French Suites, the GV's, and various others, I am
looking to buy the score of Art of Fugue.

I am looking for edition recommendations of this work. I am
fond generally of Henle editions, but thought I would see if
anyone has alternative suggestions. thanks....
Arthur Ness
2007-06-24 20:17:23 UTC
Permalink
You know it's written in open score. So why don't you learn it that way?
It's cheating (some will tell you) to use a short score (that is, with the
lines condensed onto treble and bass clefs).
====================================================================
Post by **©©
Hello,
I play a great deal of JS Bach on the piano, and having learned
both WTC books, the French Suites, the GV's, and various others, I am
looking to buy the score of Art of Fugue.
I am looking for edition recommendations of this work. I am
fond generally of Henle editions, but thought I would see if
anyone has alternative suggestions. thanks....
**©©
2007-06-27 18:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Ness
You know it's written in open score. So why don't you learn it that way?
It's cheating (some will tell you) to use a short score (that is, with the
lines condensed onto treble and bass clefs).
====================================================================
Yes, it is written in open score, but I don't see any worthwhile reason
for learning it that way. Just learning to use the different clefs
would be very time-consuming. All the notes are there in
a keyboard transcription. It's not cheating at all. It would
be a nice skill to have, but a largely unnecessary one for
my purposes.
Post by Arthur Ness
Post by **©©
Hello,
I play a great deal of JS Bach on the piano, and having learned
both WTC books, the French Suites, the GV's, and various others, I am
looking to buy the score of Art of Fugue.
I am looking for edition recommendations of this work. I am
fond generally of Henle editions, but thought I would see if
anyone has alternative suggestions. thanks....
Arthur Ness
2007-06-27 19:40:28 UTC
Permalink
I was being a bit facetious and I forgot to provide a "<g>" after the word
"cheating." But I was a bit serious, as well. There's something in the
experience of playing Bach from the score he would have used himself.
There's the "feel" of shaping the contours of the individual lines that
would be more apparent in an open score than a short score.

I guess before you tackle Bach in open score, you can work up to it with R.
O. Morris and Howard Ferguson, "Prepartory Studies in Score
Reading" Still in print from OUP. It's a gradual introduction to the clefs
with progressively ordered pieces.

There is a Kalmus edition that has the music in open score with a short
score parallel below the open score. Think about it. Why did Bach write it
in open score? Maybe you'll convince yourself.

Anyway Good Luck! You've obviously made wonderful progress with your Bach
keyboard survey. And that's quite an accomplishment in itself.
==========================================================================
Post by **©©
Post by Arthur Ness
You know it's written in open score. So why don't you learn it that way?
It's cheating (some will tell you) to use a short score (that is, with the
lines condensed onto treble and bass clefs).
====================================================================
Yes, it is written in open score, but I don't see any worthwhile reason
for learning it that way. Just learning to use the different clefs
would be very time-consuming. All the notes are there in
a keyboard transcription. It's not cheating at all. It would
be a nice skill to have, but a largely unnecessary one for
my purposes.
Post by Arthur Ness
Post by **©©
Hello,
I play a great deal of JS Bach on the piano, and having learned
both WTC books, the French Suites, the GV's, and various others, I am
looking to buy the score of Art of Fugue.
I am looking for edition recommendations of this work. I am
fond generally of Henle editions, but thought I would see if
anyone has alternative suggestions. thanks....
**©©
2007-06-28 01:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Ness
I was being a bit facetious and I forgot to provide a "<g>" after the word
"cheating." But I was a bit serious, as well. There's something in the
experience of playing Bach from the score he would have used himself.
There's the "feel" of shaping the contours of the individual lines that
would be more apparent in an open score than a short score.
I guess before you tackle Bach in open score, you can work up to it with R.
O. Morris and Howard Ferguson, "Prepartory Studies in Score
Reading" Still in print from OUP. It's a gradual introduction to the clefs
with progressively ordered pieces.
There is a Kalmus edition that has the music in open score with a short
score parallel below the open score. Think about it. Why did Bach write it
in open score? Maybe you'll convince yourself.
Anyway Good Luck! You've obviously made wonderful progress with your Bach
keyboard survey. And that's quite a
Thanks, you've got me thinking about this. Tell me - do you play
a keyboard? If so, do you use open scores? I note that JSB also
wrote the four-part chorales in open score, by the way.
Arthur Ness
2007-06-28 15:55:29 UTC
Permalink
My keyboard skills are genuinely modest.For me keyboard is a utility
instrument. But I often have music in "the clefs" that I have to read.

My major instrument is clarinet, and I first studied as a child with an
Italian trained symphpny musician. At the very first lesson (when I was
about 9) he started teaching me how to tranpose on
the clarinet using "the clefs." A child's mind works in strange ways,
because I soon mastered all kinds of transpositions and the clefs never
bother me. He would often stop me in the middle of a piece, and tell me to
finish playing it as if I had an A clarinet in my hands and the part was
written for a C clarinet. My mind clicked, and I went right on. And
there's never been a problem transfering those skills to the keyboard.

But what really reminded me about the open score was one of my students
whose graduate organ recital was a performance of the Art of Fugue. He
played from the open score (to "feel" the libnes as Bach did). And
explained why it was organ music, and not ensemble music as many thought.

And he also insisted on stopping where Bach stopped. You can imagine the
jolt that produced. His organ teacher told not to do it, I agreed somewhat,
but he did it the way he wanted to. JOLT. And that was the end of the
recital. Not even an encore to help us recover our sensibilities. It was
an emotional double whammy. The abrupt breaking off of the musical sounds,
and the realization that it represented Bach's death.

Anyway, playing from open score's a good skill to develop, and if you want
to give it a try, I
think the best approach would be to use the Morris/Ferguson "Preparatory
Studies". They are still in print
and the music's rather nice, too. It might be too difficult and too
discouraging if you tackle the
Art of Fugue right off.
ajn
Post by **©©
Post by Arthur Ness
I was being a bit facetious and I forgot to provide a "<g>" after the word
"cheating." But I was a bit serious, as well. There's something in the
experience of playing Bach from the score he would have used himself.
There's the "feel" of shaping the contours of the individual lines that
would be more apparent in an open score than a short score.
I guess before you tackle Bach in open score, you can work up to it with R.
O. Morris and Howard Ferguson, "Prepartory Studies in Score
Reading" Still in print from OUP. It's a gradual introduction to the clefs
with progressively ordered pieces.
There is a Kalmus edition that has the music in open score with a short
score parallel below the open score. Think about it. Why did Bach write it
in open score? Maybe you'll convince yourself.
Anyway Good Luck! You've obviously made wonderful progress with your Bach
keyboard survey. And that's quite a
Thanks, you've got me thinking about this. Tell me - do you play
a keyboard? If so, do you use open scores? I note that JSB also
wrote the four-part chorales in open score, by the way.
Ben Crick
2007-06-28 17:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Ness
Anyway, playing from open score's a good skill to develop, and if you
want to give it a try, I think the best approach would be to use the
Morris/Ferguson "Preparatory Studies". They are still in print
and the music's rather nice, too. It might be too difficult and too
discouraging if you tackle the Art of Fugue right off.
Playing from an open score is a really useful skill for organists
who have to accompany choirs.

The late Sir Malcolm Sargent was sub-organist at Ely Cathedral
when Dr Haydn Wood was Organist. He was instructed to play the
SATB lines with the choir for rehearsal purposes, and ignore the
organ part. This enabled him to read orchestral full scores better
when he took up conducting.

As a young organist, I was encouraged to play the top line of a
SATB hymn tune on a solo stop with the right hand, the bass line
with the pedals, and the tenor and alto lines with the left hand.
This is an invaluable skill for any church organist who has to
play for a congregation without a choir, to teach them a new tune.

My introduction to the dreaded C-clef was when I wanted to learn
some Bach choral preludes for Organ, published by Edition Peters
as "Urtext". My heart sank when I saw that the LH part was written
in the C clef (Dies sind die heil'gen zehn Geboten BWV 678);
but as the LH part was reserved for the Cantus Firmus in canon
on the octave, I gave it a go: and found it a piece of cake.

I have not yet ventured into the Clavierubung Part IV; but I think
I'll chicken out and order the short-score version!

Ben
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varuna21
2007-07-08 03:59:06 UTC
Permalink
I would recommend Wolfgang Graeser's "original" publication of the
work from 1750. It can be found for free at the International Music
Score Library Project page: www.imslp.org
This is open score, as well as the keyboard reduction.

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