goldber variations and the cabbage

[beppe]

I read that the aria of the Golberg variations stems from a little song
which says something like: if you hadn't cooked cabbage I would have
stayed... (or something like this).
I wonder if we have the original of this song, the text, the score, if it
has ever been recorded.
I tried to google for it but to no avail so far.

Beppe

[Laurent Lehmann]

Post by beppe
I read that the aria of the Golberg variations stems from a little song
which says something like: if you hadn't cooked cabbage I would have
stayed... (or something like this).
I wonder if we have the original of this song, the text, the score, if it
has ever been recorded.

It's been recorded for Celine Frisch's recording of the GV,
which also includes the 14 variations BWV1087.
http://www.celinefrisch.com/

--
Laurent

[beppe]

Post by Laurent Lehmann

Post by beppe
I read that the aria of the Golberg variations stems from a little song
which says something like: if you hadn't cooked cabbage I would have
stayed... (or something like this).
I wonder if we have the original of this song, the text, the score, if it
has ever been recorded.

It's been recorded for Celine Frisch's recording of the GV,
which also includes the 14 variations BWV1087.
http://www.celinefrisch.com/
--
Laurent

Thank you. To what I understand this version is not sung.
Beppe

[Laurent Lehmann]

Post by beppe

Post by Laurent Lehmann
It's been recorded for Celine Frisch's recording of the GV,
which also includes the 14 variations BWV1087.
http://www.celinefrisch.com/

Thank you. To what I understand this version is not sung.
Beppe

The two songs from the quodlibet are sung by Dominique Visse.

--
Laurent

[sagespath]

Post by beppe
I read that the aria of the Golberg variations stems from a little song
which says something like: if you hadn't cooked cabbage I would have
stayed... (or something like this).
I wonder if we have the original of this song, the text, the score, if it
has ever been recorded.
I tried to google for it but to no avail so far.
Beppe

The Aria you refer to is from the Anna Magdalena Book ca. 1726. It
was kind of a guest book in which visitors and Bach wrote small
pieces. The Aria has no text. It was chosen by Bach as the theme for
the Goldberg Variations when he was commissioned by Count Kayserling
(1742) to compose a lively work to help with his insomnia.
The last of the 30 variations 'Quodlibet' or "whatever" combines
themes from two popular songs of the day. The Quodlibet was a Bach
family tradition and filled the house with laughter.
The songs were 1."Cabbage and beets have driven me away. Had my
mother cooked some meat then I'd have stayed much longer. 2. "I've not
been with you for so long. Come closer, closer, closer.
The Goldberg Variations were composed for a two manual harpsichord.
The parts frequently cross so performance on a modern piano is quite
difficult. For two excellent recordings on the piano visit www.glenngould.com
For the score, use only the Schirmer edition edited by Ralph
Kirkpatrick.
I made a large harpsichord (1972-79) and performed the variations
and many other works of Bach in solo recitals and with locat
orchestras in Denver.

[Tom Hens]

sagespath <***@gmail.com> wrote...

<snip>

Post by sagespath
The Aria you refer to is from the Anna Magdalena Book ca. 1726. It
was kind of a guest book in which visitors and Bach wrote small
pieces.

The (second) Notenbüchlein of Anna Magdalena Bach wasn't a guestbook at
all. It was a notebook Bach gave as a present to Anna Magdalena after
having copied some of his own keyboard works into it, and into which she
then copied other pieces she liked, clearly for use in the family circle.
Apart from the few pieces Bach copied into it himself, almost all the rest
is written by Anna Magdalena. Most of that is music by her husband, but it
also includes pieces by other composers, as well as some of the first
keyboard compositions of her young stepsons.

Post by sagespath
The Aria has no text. It was chosen by Bach as the theme for
the Goldberg Variations

The Aria was copied by A.M. into the notebook c. 1741, at the same time
Clavierübung IV (a.k.a. the 'Goldberg Variations') was published. There is
no reason to assume the Aria existed first as an independent work, which
Bach then later decided to write variations on.

Post by sagespath
when he was commissioned by Count Kayserling
(1742) to compose a lively work to help with his insomnia.

Will this myth never die?

There is absolutely *no* historical evidence that the fourth part of the
Clavierübung was a commission from Keyserlingk, or that they were intended
to be played by Goldberg. What evidence there is points the other way. If
it had been a commissioned work, the publication would have included the
usual groveling dedication to the noble patron, which the custom of the
times required. And when Bach published the work, Goldberg was only 14
years old, still a schoolboy and not employed by Keyserlingk or anyone
else.

The only reasonable assumption is that Bach wanted to continue the
Clavierübung series with a volume dedicated to variations, a form that
hadn't been treated in the first three volumes.

Post by sagespath
The Goldberg Variations were composed for a two manual harpsichord.
The parts frequently cross so performance on a modern piano is quite
difficult. For two excellent recordings on the piano visit
www.glenngould.com

Since it's composed for harpsichord, and you say you're a harpsichordist
and even built your own instrument, why are you recommending piano
recordings, not harpsichord ones?

Post by sagespath
For the score, use only the Schirmer edition edited by Ralph
Kirkpatrick.

Why, pray tell? What's wrong with all other editions? Including, for
instance, the NBA one?

[sagespath]

Post by Tom Hens
<snip>

Post by sagespath
The Aria you refer to is from the Anna Magdalena Book ca. 1726. It
was kind of a guest book in which visitors and Bach wrote small
pieces.

The (second) Notenbüchlein of Anna Magdalena Bach wasn't a guestbook at
all. It was a notebook Bach gave as a present to Anna Magdalena after
having copied some of his own keyboard works into it, and into which she
then copied other pieces she liked, clearly for use in the family circle.
Apart from the few pieces Bach copied into it himself, almost all the rest
is written by Anna Magdalena. Most of that is music by her husband, but it
also includes pieces by other composers, as well as some of the first
keyboard compositions of her young stepsons.

Post by sagespath
The Aria has no text. It was chosen by Bach as the theme for
the Goldberg Variations

The Aria was copied by A.M. into the notebook c. 1741, at the same time
Clavierübung IV (a.k.a. the 'Goldberg Variations') was published. There is
no reason to assume the Aria existed first as an independent work, which
Bach then later decided to write variations on.

Post by sagespath
when he was commissioned by Count Kayserling
(1742) to compose a lively work to help with his insomnia.

Will this myth never die?
There is absolutely *no* historical evidence that the fourth part of the
Clavierübung was a commission from Keyserlingk, or that they were intended
to be played by Goldberg. What evidence there is points the other way. If
it had been a commissioned work, the publication would have included the
usual groveling dedication to the noble patron, which the custom of the
times required. And when Bach published the work, Goldberg was only 14
years old, still a schoolboy and not employed by Keyserlingk or anyone
else.
The only reasonable assumption is that Bach wanted to continue the
Clavierübung series with a volume dedicated to variations, a form that
hadn't been treated in the first three volumes.

Post by sagespath
The Goldberg Variations were composed for a two manual harpsichord.
The parts frequently cross so performance on a modern piano is quite
difficult. For two excellent recordings on the piano visit
www.glenngould.com

Since it's composed for harpsichord, and you say you're a harpsichordist
and even built your own instrument, why are you recommending piano
recordings, not harpsichord ones?

Post by sagespath
For the score, use only the Schirmer edition edited by Ralph
Kirkpatrick.

Why, pray tell? What's wrong with all other editions? Including, for
instance, the NBA one?

I'm not familiar with the 'NBA" edition. The title pages of most of
the few Bachs works published in his lifetime do not "grovel".
Nobody claims that Goldberg was employed by Count Kayserling. There
are references to his prodigious skill as a player. There is scant
evidence of composers specifying what performer should be allowed to
perform their works. Sometimes traditions accumulate and we get, say,
'The Moonlight Sonata', and worse.
Your 'only reasonable assumption' proves nothing and disproves
nothing.

[Tom Hens]

<snip>

Post by sagespath

Post by Tom Hens
Why, pray tell? What's wrong with all other editions? Including, for
instance, the NBA one?

I'm not familiar with the 'NBA" edition.

So you pontificate about Bach's music and what editions of it should or
shouldn't be used, but you're not familiar with the NBA?

Post by sagespath
The title pages of most of the few Bachs works published in his
lifetime do not "grovel".

I take it you've never read the dedication(s) in the Musical Offering,
then.

But you're right in the sense that Bach didn't publish many works, and
those that he did publish usually weren't dedicated to noble patrons,
including Clavierübung IV, hence no need for the customary groveling.

Post by sagespath
Nobody claims that Goldberg was employed by Count Kayserling.

The story about the origins of Clavierübung IV as a supposed commission by
Keyserlingk has no source other than Forkel's book. He claims the so-called
"Goldberg Variations" were commissioned to be played by Goldberg, who
supposedly was in Keyserlingk's employ at the time. Hence the nickname for
the work. There is no other Goldberg/Keyserlingk/Bach story around. The
story isn't true.