IS THIS A BACH NEWSGROUP?

[Terry Dwyer]

The title would suggest so. But there hasn't been a posting for weeks
that is anything to do with Bach.

Is there no moderator here?

Terry

[John Briggs]

Post by Terry Dwyer
The title would suggest so. But there hasn't been a posting for weeks
that is anything to do with Bach.

And you haven't improved matters.

Post by Terry Dwyer
Is there no moderator here?

No, this is an unmoderated newsgroup. But feel free to ask any other inane
questions which may flit across your cerebral cortex.

[Terry Dwyer]

Post by John Briggs

Post by Terry Dwyer
The title would suggest so. But there hasn't been a posting for weeks
that is anything to do with Bach.

And you haven't improved matters.

Post by Terry Dwyer
Is there no moderator here?

No, this is an unmoderated newsgroup. But feel free to ask any other inane
questions which may flit across your cerebral cortex.

Clearly there is no moderator, or such a rude answer would have been
removed.

Terry

[John Briggs]

Post by Terry Dwyer

Post by John Briggs

Post by Terry Dwyer
The title would suggest so. But there hasn't been a posting for
weeks that is anything to do with Bach.

And you haven't improved matters.

Post by Terry Dwyer
Is there no moderator here?

No, this is an unmoderated newsgroup. But feel free to ask any
other inane questions which may flit across your cerebral cortex.

Clearly there is no moderator, or such a rude answer would have been
removed.

Look up 'retromoderation' some time.

[Ioannis]

Post by Terry Dwyer
The title would suggest so. But there hasn't been a posting for weeks
that is anything to do with Bach.

We are all here. Bach fans, being the wisest of all humans, are generally very
quiet and don't talk much :-)

Post by Terry Dwyer
Is there no moderator here?

It's an unmoderated newsgroup.

Post by Terry Dwyer
Terry

[Terry Dwyer]

Post by Ioannis

Post by Terry Dwyer
The title would suggest so. But there hasn't been a posting for weeks
that is anything to do with Bach.

We are all here. Bach fans, being the wisest of all humans, are generally very
quiet and don't talk much :-)

I didn't mean "Why is no one talking about Bach?" so much as "What are
all these totally irrelevant postings doing in a Bach newsgroup?"

Post by Ioannis

Post by Terry Dwyer
Is there no moderator here?

It's an unmoderated newsgroup.

I suppose that answers my question. Thank you.
Terry

Post by Ioannis

Post by Terry Dwyer
Terry

[Andrew Schulman]

Post by Terry Dwyer

Post by Ioannis
It's an unmoderated newsgroup.

I suppose that answers my question. Thank you.
Terry

Terry, please post something interesting that has to do with Bach.
Anything.

Andrew

[Terry Dwyer]

Post by Andrew Schulman

Post by Terry Dwyer

Post by Ioannis
It's an unmoderated newsgroup.

I suppose that answers my question. Thank you.
Terry

Terry, please post something interesting that has to do with Bach.
Anything.
Andrew

OK, how about this? Go to

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:QjXkDxA_mpYJ:www.jsbachsdaspallacelloand8fviolone.com/downloads/bachsvioloneandvioloncellocorr291005.doc+octave+doubling&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=134


and read it /thoroughly/, checking out the score references wherever you
can (I have.)
This has completely opened my eyes about the needless bass octave
doublings that we have come to take for granted in Bach's orchestral music.
Terry

[John Briggs]

Post by Terry Dwyer
OK, how about this? Go to
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:QjXkDxA_mpYJ:www.jsbachsdaspallacelloand8fviolone.com/downloads/bachsvioloneandvioloncellocorr291005.doc+octave+doubling&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=134
and read it /thoroughly/, checking out the score references wherever
you can (I have.)
This has completely opened my eyes about the needless bass octave
doublings that we have come to take for granted in Bach's orchestral music.

OK, there are several issues here, in no particular order:

1. Consider the size of the ensemble, particularly the one-to-a-part
controversy. If there are only one or two 'cellos, they are unlikely to be
doubled by a double bass.

2. The bass fiddle (conventionally tuned B'b F c g - but that is near
enough to C G d a) was *replaced* as the bass instrument by the 'cello from
about 1700 onwards. Being a smaller instrument, the tessitura of its line
would be higher than that of the bass fiddle, and it would be doubled at the
octave by the double bass in 'orchestral' pieces. So, the thing to do is
look at the tessitura of Bach's "cello" lines - are they higher for any
pieces/periods? I can quite believe that Bach didn't have double basses at
Weimar, for example.

3. I am sceptical about 'cellos and bass fiddles with the same tuning
performing together, but if they did they would play to the strengths of the
respective instruments: the 'cello line should be higher than the bass
fiddle line. Can this be demonstrated to be the case?

[Terry Dwyer]

Post by John Briggs

Post by Terry Dwyer
OK, how about this? Go to
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:QjXkDxA_mpYJ:www.jsbachsdaspallacelloand8fviolone.com/downloads/bachsvioloneandvioloncellocorr291005.doc+octave+doubling&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=134
and read it /thoroughly/, checking out the score references wherever
you can (I have.)
This has completely opened my eyes about the needless bass octave
doublings that we have come to take for granted in Bach's orchestral music.

1. Consider the size of the ensemble, particularly the one-to-a-part
controversy. If there are only one or two 'cellos, they are unlikely to be
doubled by a double bass.
2. The bass fiddle (conventionally tuned B'b F c g - but that is near
enough to C G d a) was *replaced* as the bass instrument by the 'cello from
about 1700 onwards. Being a smaller instrument, the tessitura of its line
would be higher than that of the bass fiddle, and it would be doubled at the
octave by the double bass in 'orchestral' pieces. So, the thing to do is
look at the tessitura of Bach's "cello" lines - are they higher for any
pieces/periods? I can quite believe that Bach didn't have double basses at
Weimar, for example.
3. I am sceptical about 'cellos and bass fiddles with the same tuning
performing together, but if they did they would play to the strengths of the
respective instruments: the 'cello line should be higher than the bass
fiddle line. Can this be demonstrated to be the case?

On this last point, playing to the strengths need not mean a different
range, rather a different difficulty. Bach seems to me to write violone
parts which need little virtuosity, whereas the cello is another
matter. In other words the cello is treated as a potential solo
instrument, the violone as a ripieno.

[John Briggs]

Post by Terry Dwyer

Post by John Briggs

Post by Terry Dwyer
OK, how about this? Go to
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:QjXkDxA_mpYJ:www.jsbachsdaspallacelloand8fviolone.com/downloads/bachsvioloneandvioloncellocorr291005.doc+octave+doubling&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=134
and read it /thoroughly/, checking out the score references wherever
you can (I have.)
This has completely opened my eyes about the needless bass octave
doublings that we have come to take for granted in Bach's orchestral music.

1. Consider the size of the ensemble, particularly the one-to-a-part
controversy. If there are only one or two 'cellos, they are unlikely
to be doubled by a double bass.
2. The bass fiddle (conventionally tuned B'b F c g - but that is
near enough to C G d a) was *replaced* as the bass instrument by the
'cello from about 1700 onwards. Being a smaller instrument, the
tessitura of its line would be higher than that of the bass fiddle,
and it would be doubled at the octave by the double bass in
'orchestral' pieces. So, the thing to do is look at the tessitura
of Bach's "cello" lines - are they higher for any pieces/periods? I
can quite believe that Bach didn't have double basses at Weimar, for
example. 3. I am sceptical about 'cellos and bass fiddles with the same
tuning performing together, but if they did they would play to the
strengths of the respective instruments: the 'cello line should be
higher than the bass fiddle line. Can this be demonstrated to be
the case?

On this last point, playing to the strengths need not mean a different
range, rather a different difficulty. Bach seems to me to write
violone parts which need little virtuosity, whereas the cello is
another matter. In other words the cello is treated as a potential
solo instrument, the violone as a ripieno.

If that is really the case, there is no reason to believe that it is a
diffrent instrument.

[Andrew Schulman]

Post by Terry Dwyer
OK, how about this? Go to
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:QjXkDxA_mpYJ:www.jsbachsdaspalla...
and read it /thoroughly/, checking out the score references wherever you
can (I have.)
This has completely opened my eyes about the needless bass octave
doublings that we have come to take for granted in Bach's orchestral music.

Finally, after a very long dry spell, something interesting on this
list. Thanks Terry. I will take the time necessary to look at this.

It is of particular interest to me as I lead an unusual string group;
8-string guitar/mandolin/violin/viola/double bass. The Abaca String
Quintet, we play a lot of Bach. My guitar, when playing continuo,
plays the 'cello register, the bass doubles an octave lower. I can
tell you that this sounds a lot better than if the bass played in the
'cello register.

Anyway, thanks again for introducing an interesting subject.

Andrew

[John Briggs]

Post by Andrew Schulman

Post by Terry Dwyer
OK, how about this? Go to
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:QjXkDxA_mpYJ:www.jsbachsdaspalla...
and read it /thoroughly/, checking out the score references wherever
you can (I have.)
This has completely opened my eyes about the needless bass octave
doublings that we have come to take for granted in Bach's orchestral music.

Finally, after a very long dry spell, something interesting on this
list. Thanks Terry. I will take the time necessary to look at this.
It is of particular interest to me as I lead an unusual string group;
8-string guitar/mandolin/violin/viola/double bass. The Abaca String
Quintet, we play a lot of Bach. My guitar, when playing continuo,
plays the 'cello register, the bass doubles an octave lower. I can
tell you that this sounds a lot better than if the bass played in the
'cello register.

Nobody is suggesting a double bass playing in the 'cello register.

Wouldn't it sound better if you played the continuo on a theorbo?

[Andrew Schulman]

Post by John Briggs
Wouldn't it sound better if you played the continuo on a theorbo?

A) I don't play theorbo.
B) I don't play theorbo.

Andrew

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Post by Andrew Schulman

Post by John Briggs
Wouldn't it sound better if you played the continuo on a theorbo?

A) I don't play theorbo.
B) I don't play theorbo.
Andrew

Too many strings?

Steve

[Andrew Schulman]

On Feb 22, 4:03 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld

Post by Mark & Steven Bornfeld
Too many strings?

It's about the money first and foremost, practicality second.

My 8-string guitar is a wonderful all around instrument, especially as
my repertoire range is very wide: sounds great with Bach, Ellington,
Tarrega, etc. And it is easy to travel with.

However, if money was not an issue there are all kinds of fretted
instruments I would own, lots of computers too.

Andrew

[Sales at SavageClassical dot com]

Post by Andrew Schulman

Post by Terry Dwyer

Post by Ioannis
It's an unmoderated newsgroup.

I suppose that answers my question. Thank you.
Terry

Terry, please post something interesting that has to do with Bach.
Anything.
Andrew

Andrew....where else can you discuss Bach and have a "sexy bikini romp
video" at your fingertips? Oh yes, my house of course! :-)

btw, I really want to sell my 8 string. I'll leave the 8 string
specialization to you, mon ami. Any suggestions? All the bikini clad
womens keep tripping up on my extra strings hahahaha....

Rich

[Andrew Schulman]

On Feb 25, 10:57 am, "Sales at SavageClassical dot com"

I'll leave the 8 string specialization to you, mon ami. Any suggestions?

Unfortunately, no! They are hard to sell because of it being such a
small market.

Andrew